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Nov4
Is there a point to moving Harrington for a point?
Filed under: Commentary; Tagged as: Al Harrington, Allen Iverson, Baron Davis, C.J. Watson, Chauncey Billups, Corey Maggette, DeMarcus Nelson, Don Nelson, Drew Gooden, Joe Dumars, Kelenna Azubuike, Kirk Hinrich, Marco Belinelli, Marcus Williams, Monta Ellis, Rodney Stuckey, Stephen Jackson, Thabo Sefolosha[EDIT at 3:30 p.m.: I looked up and then forgot to list the team offensive efficiency stats from John Hollinger. The Warriors are 21st so far this season, averaging 85.0 points per 100 possessions. A year ago, they were third, at 96.6. Just another sign they need another facilitator to move the ball in the short term.]
It’s been a week now since Al Harrington put on his impassioned Elvis impersonation, and the Warriors seem no closer to moving their forward to happier climes.
In fact, I’m beginning to get convinced that Harrington and the Warriors might be stuck with each at least until Monta Ellis returns from his ankle surgery.
That fact was put into stark relief Monday when Joe Dumars struck almost without warning, collecting Allen Iverson from the Denver Nuggets in exchange for three players, most notably point guard Chauncey Billups.
Pulling the trigger on that deal was almost comically easy for Dumars, since it represents a victory in both the short and long views — the immediate effect is an upgrade from Billups to Iverson and a desired shakeup in the team’s culture, while the two-year plan is the opening of a slot for rising guard Rodney Stuckey.
For the Warriors, however, there do not appear to be any such no-brainer trades lurking out there by which Harrington can be set free.
That’s because Golden State’s short- and long-term goals cannot be easily resolved by any one player.
In the short term, it’s indisputable that the Warriors need help at the point guard position. DeMarcus Nelson, while a find as an undrafted rookie, is a raw, unfinished combo guard who’s not yet ready to be the primary playmaker on an NBA team. C.J. Watson is a score-first guy with flashes of occasional passing creativity, but not enough consistent ability to get past his man on the dribble. Stephen Jackson is too turnover-prone to be a full-time initiator. Marcus Williams has, for better or worse, been banished to irrelevancy.
But the whole point of signing Ellis to a six-year, $66 million deal was to make him the Warriors point guard of the future. (Admittedly, the timetable had to be moved up on that transformation once Baron Davis opted out, but Don Nelson has said consistently and pretty much from the moment he got here that Ellis would need to be a point guard to attain greatness in the NBA.)
So while someone such as Kirk Hinrich would be a tremendous upgrade over what the Warriors have on the floor right now, how do the pieces fit together when Ellis is healthy? Will Nelson sit either Jackson or Corey Maggette to get Hinrich on the floor? Does this mean Kelenna Azubuike can expect 4 minutes a night?
About the only way to get full value from Hinrich when Ellis returns is to play him at the 2, move Jackson back to the 3 and Maggette to the 4.
Unfortunately, that would be a disaster.
The small ball lineup of Davis/Jason Richardson/Jackson/Harrington couldn’t get out of the second round of the playoffs two seasons ago. And that group — especially when you consider how well Davis was playing in the spring of 2007 — is significantly better than what Ellis/Hinrich/Jackson/Maggette offers at this point in time.
Holding onto Harrington until Ellis returns gives the team options. If Warriors officials are convinced Ellis won’t return to his previous form and try to void his deal, then they can pull the trigger on a Harrington deal involving a permanent replacement at PG. If they like what they see from Ellis’ rehabilitation a month from now, then they can make a trade to shave further salary obligations off the books — such as Harrington and Marco Belinelli to Chicago for Drew Gooden (whose $7.1 million contract expires this summer) and Thabo Sefolosha.
This season has been star-crossed from the moment Davis informed the Warriors of his decision to decline $17.8 million in salary. Making a trade that solves one short-term problem while creating a longer-term logjam is not the solution.
– Geoff
19 Responses to “Is there a point to moving Harrington for a point?”
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Jonathan November 4th, 2008 at 4:56 pm
Geoff,
I think you’re right on this one. Until we know what we’re getting out of Monta this year, it doesn’t make sense to bring in a player like Hinrich at $40M over the next 4 years. Honestly, I don’t know why Marcus Williams hasn’t had a chance to play yet… if anything, he can be a short-term fix at the point (If it’s truly a Rowell/Nelson versus Mullin mind game, then it’s not really fair to us fans)… how can he be any worse than DeMarcus, who is averaging around 2 assists per game? The real disappointment right now is all the hype leading up to the season and the garbage (lack of ball movement) they’re putting on the floor.
– Jonathan -
Wouldn’t many of the problems you mentioned be alleviated if the Warriors put Jackson on the block along with Harrington?
- no “logjam”
- outgoing package with sufficient salary to match a maximum contract player…an expiring maximum contract player…an expiring maximum contract point guardI can think of one that’s eminently available besides the one that was just dealt to Detroit- Stephon Marbury.
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Unfortunately, we also need to take into account the team’s attractiveness to free agents. Just this past offseason, the team threw huge contract offers at Gilbert Arenas and Elton Brand. Both turned the offers down and took less at their respective destinations.
Now, having to deal with Robert “salary protection” Rowell in contract negotiations, a coach in Don Nelson that will play people out of position and the reputation of a team going nowhere, who would realistically sign with us after we get the cap space?
The superstars will not, leaving us with B- or even C-level stars like Corey Maggette who is for the most part in it for the money.
The future looks bleak.
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Jonathan,
I’m with you about not acting prematurely before the Warriors get a good grasp of what Monta can still bring to the table if and when he returns. Chad Ford at ESPN had stated 12 of the top 30 projected prospects in next June’s draft are point guards. Since the Warriors are obviously not competing for the NBA title this season, I see no reason to rush into a Harrington trade that doesn’t make sense for the Warriors over the long haul, i.e. Kirk Hinrich at $36.5 million over 4 years when lower costing long term solutions are available in a point guard heavy draft. Hinrich’s salary averages more money per year than AB’s deal. The odds are the Warriors will be in the lottery next June and should be in a position to add a very good point guard prospect to compliment and grow with their young core of AR, BW, AB and ME. As far as I’m concerned, if a desirable deal isn’t available to the Warriors by the mid-season trade deadline, the Warriors should put the ball back into Al Harrington’s court by forcing him to opt out of the final year of his contract and leave $10 million on the table if he wants to get away from Don Nelson that badly. There is no reason the Warriors should have to compromise their future just to placate Al Harrington and his hired gun Dan Fegan.
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Jon,
Trading Harrington and Jackson’s salaries are not enough to match Stephon Marbury’s $21.9 million. But if you want the Warriors to trade for Marbury that badly, Stephon for Harrington, Jackson and Maggette meets the CBA trade requirements after December 15, 2008. There’s no doubt in my mind this trade will make the Warriors the worst team in the NBA.
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“such as Harrington and Marco Belinelli to Chicago for Drew Gooden (whose $7.1 million contract expires this summer) and Thabo Sefolosha.”
Bulls have SF/PF Tyrus “Tweener” Thomas and SF/PF Andres Nocioni. Adding Harrington would give Chicago three guys who don’t have a natural position on the floor.
Gooden’s a legit PF and their only low block scorer. he ain’t going anywhere because Harrington can’t replace him. Chicago would offer Nocioni for Harrington. Chapu! That would help both teams. Nocioni is tough and high energy so he’d work under Nellie.
Our Italian Stallion can’t crack Nellie’s rotation. Thabo was starting at SG and is both longer, and more athletic. I don’t see any trade happening where the guard heavy Bulls lose Thabo, a SG/SF for a one position player at SG.
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Adding a minor deal like Marcus Williams is sufficient to match salaries with Marbury. It’s not a big deal.
Being a crappy team is also not a big deal.
In the NBA, you the best scenario is to be really damn good.
The second best scenario is to be really damn bad, but with a buttload of resources and a bright future.
The worst scenario, however, is to be bad and rely on veterans. Right now we look to be bad and we’re relying on veterans.
If we are to suck, we should suck with kids and expiring deals.
Pick a direction, it doesn’t matter which one; either is preferrable to having none.
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What does the PGs have to do with with our veteran players (corey,jack,Al,beeke) all shooting so poorly in all 4 games we have played? We blame the PGs for all those misses? How many open shots do they need?Look at their shooting percentages in our games and the real problem will become clear.We as a team arent hitting shots,it doesnt matter who the PG is if we miss wide open shots.
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Youth Movement November 4th, 2008 at 11:24 pm
For years we have been hearing how Monta is the PG of the future, yet he hasn’t really shown us anything at that position. He is a scorer, not a distributor, and no amount of wishing on the part of the team or fans has changed that so up until now, so why are we all convinced that he’s going to come back and stabilize the position?
4REAL, good point. Missing open looks, especially in the 4th quarter, can most likely be attributed to tired legs due to too many minutes for the starters.
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Those misses are jumpers. Jumpers are harder than layups.
A point guard’s job is to either get layups or easier, closer jumpers.
There are two ways to create consistent, effective offense in the NBA:
Post presence
Dribble penetration
We have neither until Ellis comes back
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No matter how you slice it we arent hitting any shots.When we get penatration from PGs or Jack we still dont hit shots.This wont last im sure but to put blame in one area is just off base.
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man I don’t even know what the warriors need to do but they need to do something. We will see just as our country has done something by electing Barack OBama as the president of the United States of America couldn’t be more proud the warrior president Rowell needs to do something because he is sitting around like a lame duck aka BUSH do something trade AL he is trash can’t hit the side of a barn get us a decent PG till Ellis comes back and they can play togthether and sit the other point down because cmon we all know Ellis is one of the unique talents in the league and yes he messed up but he is going to bounce back and be a straight star in the NBA at point slash I am a really good baller position
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In a article in Oakland tribune Beidrin seems to beleive the poor shots being taken in the 4th period, that coach calls the play for ,is the reason or the losses and that he plans to say something about it.
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David E November 5th, 2008 at 9:27 am
Gooden keeps getting traded because he doesn’t understand the game very well. I can’t see him playing for Nellie. Boris Diaw? Nellie said he would have taken him instead of Howard in Dallas had he been available.Could you make the Harrington for Diaw trade, It’s a trade you could make now. Run the offense through Diaw, a guy who likes to pass more than shoot.
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M.Squared November 5th, 2008 at 10:53 am
The Warriors are going to have to hold Al just a bit to see what they have when Monta is back. As the year progresses there are going to be some teams looking to make deals when challenges present themselves. Utah could move Boozer , The Blazers are already looking to move Outlaw, The Knicks are going to move Lee, Charlotte will likely move Felton, Villenueva will be out of Mil… and more deals will come about as well. And there is no reason to move him when he is having 3-15 nights. Hang on til Feb and see whats there and then look to deal. Also- there is no way you throw Bellineli into any trades until you see him play consistent minutes (15 plus) for a few games. This really isnt even enough to eval him but at least it gives a bit more clarity.
p.s.- the bulls are either going to move gooden so they dont lose him or they will give up on Ty Thomas and move him. Despite whoever they keep - they would take Harrington because he can start or backup both spots and he gives them a bigger forward that can (sometimes) shoot.
Noccioni is a true 3. -
How about trading Harrington to Minnesota for Jason Collins, Mark Madsen, their 2009 first round pick and the conditional first round pick they acquired from Miami in the Ricky Davis trade. Harrington would be an upgrade at the 3 and make their bench deeper by moving Brewer to the bench. Jason Collins contract is an expiring one and Madsen’s will expire at the end of next year and is only 2.6 million. This way their will be more minutes for Wright, Randolph, and Hendrix to show what they can do. Plus, the Warriors get two more additional first round picks and there’s a good chance Minnesota’s will be a lottery pick. Thoughts?
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Did you look at the Twolves lineup before tossing that out there?
They have too many forwards already, why would they add an expensive one? They eat the biggest contract AND give up a pick?
Sorry.
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M.Squared November 5th, 2008 at 5:01 pm
yeah- Minnesota is building for the future. Unless by some reason they get real good and are battling for a playoff spot - they aren’t trading for vets that they will lose in a year. They’ll let collins expire. Additionally- for them- moving a guy like brewer to the bench is a step back unless it means that Mcants or Carney blossomed and seized that spot. They have a lot of young pieces but other than Jefferson and maybe Love- none have really presented themeselves ready now starters-
despite displaying some talent here and there. -
Jon and M. Squared: Thanks for the feedback fellas.
Jon: Yes, I looked at the sf spot and they only have two listed on their roster. Brewer is the only one who sees any significant playing time although Gomes and Craig Smith may actually see some playing time at the 3 as well. I’m not sure, I don’t really follow them too closely. I do think that Harrington would be an upgrade over all three of those guys. They might consider adding an expensive contract if they believe they can make the playoffs this year because they would be getting rid of Jason Collins contract (6.2 million this year) and Mark Madsen’s contract (2 years left 2.63 million). Those two guys don’t play a whole lot, if any. I think they would definitely consider it if the Warriors took back Brian Cardinal instead of Collins because he has two years left on his deal. Plus, after this year Harrington contract will be an asset because it will be an expiring one.
M. Squared: You’re probably right about Minnesota building for the future. That’s definitely the biggest issue with the deal I proposed. However, I think that if the deal is tweaked a bit as I outlined above this wouldn’t be a bad deal for either team. Maybe the Wolves would agree to it if the Warriors just as for the conditional first rounder from Miami and the rights to switch first round draft picks with them this year. It might be a long shot, but I don’t think it’s totally out of the question.
Anyways, I’m hoping the Warriors get a high enough draft pick to take Jrue Holiday to play in the back court with Monta. That kid is legit!
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