23 Responses to “When Harrington goes out, who comes in?”

1. 

   Joe October 29th, 2008 at 10:47 am

   WTF? Bulls hybrid Guard Krik Hinrich has defended the opponents best perimeter player every night for the past few years and, up to now, also had to run the Bulls offense.

   Last night, Bulls starting 2 guard, Thabo, picked up two quick fouls and went to the bench. Hinrick came in to play 2 guard and defended well in a Bulls win.

   Paring Hinrick with Monta Ellis is similar to the Bulls pairing Kirk Hinrick with Ben Gordon only Monta Ellis is faster than Gordon and can help Hinrick with the ball. Gordon’s a better perimeter shooter.

2. 

   gswfan4ever October 29th, 2008 at 10:51 am

   Hinrich was on 2nd All Defensive team in 2007

3. 

   chris October 29th, 2008 at 11:06 am

   Geoff, what about a trade with Utah for Andrei Kirilenko? I know he has a large contract but has in the past voiced an interest in leaving Utah since the Jazz rebuilt around Deron Williams and Carlos Boozer. Kirilenko seems a bit out of place in Utah’s offense, but certainly thrived against the Dubs in the playoffs 2 years ago when Utah ran with them. Jerry Sloan even had him play point forward and he shut down Steven Jackson. He’s much better defensively than Al. Al certainly looks like a good fit in Utah where he could play his preferred position of small forward next to Boozer. He would give the Jazz another athletic big man who has a knack for scoring inside and out.

   Having said all this, I would not complain if they got Hinrich. Just please not Marbury.

4. 

   Geoff Lepper October 29th, 2008 at 11:28 am

   gswfan: That’s one season out of five — his best offensive year, it should be noted, since the All-Defense team is still a cousin of the sham that is Gold Glove voting — and he dropped right back off it last year.

5. 

   petaluman October 29th, 2008 at 12:13 pm

   Geoff,

   When I saw your title, I thought it was going to be about who we would start at PF if Al was gone! I think his situation is a bit like Pietrus - he wants to be traded into a greener pasture, but no one is likely to offer back equal value for us. For the moment, it looks to me like Harrington is here for at least one more year.

   Hinrich – his contract is a deal killer

   Crittenton – Memphis isn’t likely to want to pick up salary. Buckner & Jaric both have 3 more years. I’d consider Crit & Darko for Al, though. I don’t know if Memphis would do it, but Al might beg to stay here if threatened with Memphis. We’d have to include a small contract or waive someone to do a deal like this.

   Felton – Bobcats only have 2 PGs, and know Felton will be a valuable trade chip when they’re ready to move him. They might offer Raymond & Nazr for Al & one of our PGs, if they’re desperate to move Mohammed (19M+ for 3 years). Of course, Felton is in the last year of his deal, so we could end up with just Nazr for 2 more years.

   Watson – They could bundle Watson with Mason or Wilkins (more swingmen!), or a big man expiring – Joe Smith, anyone? The big question here is why would they want Al?

   Claxton – Al & a prospect for Claxton & Zazu, but why would Atlanta want a 9M/year backup behind Marvin & Josh?

   Villanueva – Bucks might be willing to trade CV (3.4M expiring) & Gadzuric (20M/3 years) for Al. Are we? As with Felton, CV could be a 1 year rental, but Dan would be around awhile.

   Mobley – no

   Marbury & Iverson – no, plus we lack the assets to trade for 20M+ contracts.

6. 

   howl October 29th, 2008 at 1:39 pm

   The Clippers already have Al Harrington; only he goes by the name Tim Thomas down there.

7. 

   Jon October 29th, 2008 at 1:48 pm

   I have to echo Joe’s comment on Hinrich- he’s got a rep as a pretty solid defender (or better), and he’s got the fairly strong build at 6′3, meaning he can guard some 2’s. I like him more as PG than SG (but then, I like Ellis at PG more than SG as well…). His contract is prohibitive.

   Crittenton would be sweet, but not if he came with Jaric. Walker is an expiring and might work, I’d gamble on Milicic as well.

   The rest if pretty bleh.
   I must note that any deal for Marbury or Iverson would be pretty impossible unless you put Al and Jack together to make the money work.

   Why not just call Cleveland for Eric Snow (Retiring and expiring) and a pick?

   Also:
   Please pass on Felton. THAT’s the guy that would be a red carpet to the hoop. Ellis-felton is a tiny backcourt that can’t stay in front of anyone, and Felton isn’t exactly a pure point guard either.

8. 

   Joe October 29th, 2008 at 1:52 pm

   Geoff;

   Who was the best bull’s perimeter defender under Bulls’ Scott Skiles and his scrappy playoff teams that lead or were on the top of the league in team defense?

   Krik also ran the offense as PG.

   Isn’t that the same burden what poor StackJack has to carry this year? The same one Hinrick carried on several Bull’s payoff teams? Run the offense as PG AND defend the best perimeter player?

   His backup was Chris Duhon.

   GSW would be LUCKY to get Hinrick for Harrington.

9. 

   Jon October 29th, 2008 at 2:28 pm

   Hold up there, Joe. While I’d agree with your assessment of Hinrich’s abilities, the contract issues cannot be ignored:

   Ellis, Jack, and Maggette are locked into medium to medium-large annual salaries through next year at least. Those guys are your 1-2-3.

   Now enter Hinrich @ $9M annually, who’s a big point guard/undersized shooting guard. Who goes to the bench when Ellis returns?

   A monstrous backcourt of Hinrich and Jack would be excellent (love to see that), but that’s alot of sunk cost sitting on the bench.

   Now, if the Warriors voided Ellis’ deal…we’re good, but that isn’t happening anytime soon.

10. 

    Geoff Lepper October 29th, 2008 at 2:28 pm

    Joe: Kirk, to me, was the third best individual defender on those teams, at best, behind Deng and Ben Wallace/Tyson Chandler.

    I watched probably two dozen Bulls games over the last three seasons. Maybe I saw him on some bad nights, but I was not particularly bowled over, plus there was a significant drop off last season.

    I should have said that Hinrich is better than Earl Watson, and way better than the rebuilt Claxton. And I like Raymond Felton a lot, but he would be an even worse match with Monta, as Jon pointed out. Crittenton, to me, has the tools to be a great defender, but needs time on the floor.

11. 

    CL October 29th, 2008 at 2:43 pm

    Joe,

    “GSW would be LUCKY to get Hinrich for Harrington.” In terms of talent your statement has validity but Hinrich’s contract has 4 years remaining at $36.5 million. That’s an average of $9.5 million which is more than what the Warriors are paying AB. Harrington’s contract ends exactly when cap hungry teams will be looking to dump salary to be players in free agency. Trading for Hinrich’s lengthy contract means the Warriors will not be players in the 2010 free agent market when a lot of very desirable players will be available. (Jax and Harrington both expire in 2010 and Foyle’s buyout sum hasn’t yet been utilized.) That’s a pretty steep price to pay for Hinrich.

12. 

    mb October 29th, 2008 at 3:04 pm

    What about trading for Mike Miller. He’s basically the player that Nelly wants to turn Al into. contracts are close in price, miller’s expires one year later so W’s stay in the market for 2010.

13. 

    Jon October 29th, 2008 at 3:08 pm

    The Grizzlies have three other PF types already, and Mike Miller plays the same position as Jack and Maggette while making big money.

    Before goofballing trade ideas, consider these interests in the following order:

    1. The Money.
    2. What the other team wants and needs
    3. The Money
    4. The Money.
    5. Your own desires.

14. 

    Geoff Lepper October 29th, 2008 at 3:24 pm

    Jon: Mike Miller’s in Minnesota now, but your points are still well-taken.

15. 

    M.Squared October 29th, 2008 at 3:31 pm

    Geoff-
    When you speak to AL, tell him to step up next time and show some balls instead of feeding you soup with “I’m being honest, I never said that”. I like Al’s game a lot and agree that the Ws have misused him but come on-AL, be a man and keep it real.
    I don’t see the Warriors doing anything with the above teams. Nazr and Gadzurich are not coming to GS with those contracts. The Warriors know that after committing to Ellis, Andris, Jackson and Maggette that their next move leaves them with no movement under the cap and those 2 guys would be dead weight unless accompanied by an all-star. Someone would have to floor the Dubs with a deal right now - otherwise I see them telling Al to shut up and play. Nelllie has already said he wants him to play in the paint- so I dont know what the problem would be. It sounds like he is finally getting what he wants. I think Nellie should have had him in the paint last year but at least he is doing something now.
    As far as the other guys- Heinrich is solid but too expensive-Earl Watson is 2nd stringer on his best day. The dude just doesnt have what it takes to lead or set people up. People have been talking about him for years and he remains to do nothing. The W’s arent taking back Claxton or Mobley either and Felton is a major flight risk who wouldnt want to sit behind Ellis. I like Crittenton’s upside but it would have to be a Marcus Williams swap for him or something minor. No one knows what Crittenton can really do becuase he hasnt ever played a role yet. Speaking of Williams- what is the beef with him and Nellie? Is he that bad? I watched a few NJ games last year after the Kidd trade and thought that he was going to be solid. I hear that he can pass but that his D is weak. Last time I checked though- many of Nellies other players were in the Defensive Player of the Year voting anyway. There has to be more to this but no one is really writing much about it.

    Let me drop this deal on you: Harrington and Williams for Crawford and David Lee.
    Think before you laugh at this- The Knicks won’t extend Lee because his deal will take them out of the 2010 free agent market and they are also looking to shed Crawfords deal for this same reason. Additionally- Crawford has been subpar in D’antoni’s system, so much that they are considering starting Marbury or NateRob over him. The Knicks aren’t that worried about moving Stephon because he will come off the books anyway- so Jamal may have to go. Meanwhile- I am not in love with Crawford- BUT- he can play the 1 and the 2 and would be a good guy off the bench backing up Jackson or Ellis and he could step in and start now at the point until Ellis gets back. Also - he is big and isnt a bad defender. The real reason to do the deal though would be to land LEE who could come in and clean the boards and get junk baskets without having his # called. At the very least- Lee is a great asset for re-trade and if Wright or Randolph become a starter- Lee can come off the bench as he did when he made his name in NY.
    In my mind - this is the only real deal that goes down right now for Golden State. Around Feb - maybe some other deals will present themselves as the year goes on but it’s just not trade time right now. All the deals went down already. Al shoulda spoke up sooner.
    -M.Squared

16. 

    Jon October 29th, 2008 at 3:36 pm

    Crawford creates the same problems as Hinrich with none of the benefits. The money alone makes Crawford a ridiculously bad fit, his play sends any possibility down the black hole where it belongs. No defense, terribly inefficient on offense.

    I like David Lee, but not enough to eat Crawford’s deal. Plus we have Hendrix already as a banger who doesn’t need a contract extension.

    Geoff,
    Yeah, I meant the Twolves. I had Al jefferson, Craig smith, and Kevin love in mind. Typo!

17. 

    PJ October 29th, 2008 at 5:00 pm

    M. Squared:

    I think you make a really good point about using leverage against other teams needing to make space to get into that 2010 FA market. It’s unlikely we can grab any big name player, so we should use the fact that those other teams have to give up quite a bit more to free up cap space. I really hope the dubs realize this and incorporate this into their player acquisition strategy.

18. 

    M.Squared October 29th, 2008 at 6:14 pm

    Crappy contract - yes but -Crawford has only 2 years left and is a tradeable asset. Also he is not bad on O. He averaged 20 pts with 5 assists, a steal , knocked down his free throws and was NY’s only consistent scoring threat. His biggest prob was his shooting percentage which I doubt he would have the green light here like he did in Oakland. Judging him on his D is tough when the Knicks didnt play D at all. he can guard 2 positions and be decent at it. AS a spot starter and a backup- he would be good to go and not carry the weight ($ x years) that Henrich has. I havent seen Hendrix yet so I dont know what he can do but Lee is a proven a talent and is also another tradeable asset as well. It gives us options. As mentioned- I am with making Al stay and play at least for now. Other deals will be made this year and the off season and he is an asset that should not be given away for the next team trying to dump their junk ( Mohommed, Gadzurich, Zach Randolph, Watson) or bad deals ( Heinrich, Kirelinko) on us.

    My thought is that in 2010, Golden State will MAYBE be competing for a 2nd tier free agent, but the likelyness of LBJ or Wade coming here is pretty ridiculous based on the way things are shaping up. Additionally- if they had plans to make a run at someone- they wouldnt be re-upping jax early ( mistake) nor would they have commited to Turiaf for 4 years (again-bad move).
    I hate to be a downer- but the Warriors are in rebuilding mode and Rowell is not the guy that should be in charge of the blueprints. GS had a much better chance of bringing in a major free agent had Baron stayed. In that situation- they would have looked to move a big contract ( AL) and a young guy ( Wright) and maybe try to grab an allstar to pair with Davis, Jax, Ellis and Andris- (which is the play Mullin made for Garnett last summer) but that whole plan is over now. They have to hope bigtime that Wright or Randolph blow up in the next 2 years. If that happens and you could have a solid front court of either of them along Jack and Andris- they could then use Harrington, Maggette, a pic and other assets to land a point guard a year from now and then move Ellis back to the 2. This is realistically their best bet.

    P.S.- Totally unrelated but -
    Has anyone noticed the fliers that the Mav’s are taking on former first round pics that haven’t panned out right away? Antoine Wright, Shawnee Williams, Gerald Green and Brandon Bass are all falied starters elsewhere but look to contrib nice minutes off the bench for Dallas. The sweetest thing about this for Dallas is they got each of these guys for very little in return. I think one of those dudes pan out and play a big role for Dallas- especially with George and Stack on their last legs and Josh Howard talking himself out of town. Bass contributed last year behind Dirk. Smart moves - epecailly when they are a year away from transition.

19. 

    M.Squared October 29th, 2008 at 6:19 pm

    If the Warriors had the contracts to get it done- Marion would be an interesting option.
    Harrington meets Miami’s need for a short term deal but the Warriors would have to move 1/2 the team to make this happen. I don’t see a fit there. The flip to this is that Marion would also go free next year- but they would have a year to eval and with a lot of teams not having cap room he could find him self taking a big pay cut or being a pawn in a sign and trade. Again without the salaries- this couldnt go down.

20. 

    Joe October 29th, 2008 at 6:23 pm

    Geoff; Thanks for the reply.

    Like GSW, Chicago under Skiles ran and was a perimeter team. They had a very good team defense until last year’s melt down when Skiles lost the team. Hinrick was an anchor of those teams.

    Chandler as a defensive force in Chicago would be a very controversial comment to their fans and press. He matured *after* he left the Bulls. We’ll see him tonight but he’s not the guy that played in Chicago. He made a lot of unforced turnovers and picked up cheap fouls. Skiles and he drove each other nuts.

    On the GSW Hinrick would not be a defensive liability. He’d probably work well in Nelson’s system except for his 3pt % which IMHO suffered because he was asked to do so much in Chicago (watch StakJack’s % drop this season if he’s defending and playing some Point).

    With the glut of guards and Rose, Hinrck have enough rest so his shooting should improve.

    He’d be a great addition for Nelson’s system. I doubtr they’d trade for AL however.

21. 

    Joe October 29th, 2008 at 6:31 pm

    M Squared:

    Jamal Crawford did NOT defend when he played for Chicago. IMHO Knicks GM, Issiah “sleeping pills” Thomas, woo’ed him with sweet talk and a large R-FA contract but once he won the guy, Issiah never helped the kid develop his game.

    I’d say the same thing for Eddie Curry, another of Thomas’s FA signings who wasn’t pushed to develop, keep fit or “jump” for rebounds.

22. 

    George October 31st, 2008 at 12:55 pm

    How about trading Harrington to Minnesota for Jason Collins, Mark Madsen, their 2009 first round pick and the conditional first round pick they acquired from Miami in the Ricky Davis trade. Harrington would be an upgrade at the 3 and make their bench deeper by moving Brewer to the bench. Jason Collins contract is an expiring one and Madsen’s will expire at the end of next year and is only 2.6 million. This way their will be more minutes for Wright, Randolph, and Hendrix to show what they can do. Plus, the Warriors get two more additional first round picks and there’s a good chance Minnesota’s will be a lottery pick. Thoughts?

23. 

    Al Harrington Wants To Be Traded « nbaroundtable November 30th, 2008 at 2:12 pm

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